About Nappy-Headed Hos & Finding a Good Woman
I'm sure most of you are not in the habit of starting your day out by watching "The View". Many people mistakenly think "chick show" and disregard it. That's ok, I realize the estrogen level is really high but personally I enjoy watching. Four intelligent, articulate, informed women discussing today's hot political and current event topics - what's not to like?
If you don't watch, then yesterday you missed an interesting segment featuring comic Damon Wayans. The volume on the video above isn't very good so in case you can't hear, allow me to summarize.
When asked about Don Imus' firing for his revolting remarks about the Rutger's women's basketball team, Wayons remarked, "Freedom of speech, what happened to that? What happened to expressing yourself?" He went on to say, "At least I know where he stands. And you know what? When he called them nappy-headed ho's, I went, 'Wow, he's right!'"
I blinked and thought, "Surely this is a joke". He laughed and remarked that "black people sitting at home are laughing" so maybe it was a joke. I certainly wasn't sure after hearing his next remarks. When asked about his status as a single man, Wayons explained, "Women today, most women I run into, don't want to do the fundamentals," he said. "They don't cook. ... I make the money so she can make something to cook."
He's right on one thing. Don Imus had a right to express himself. Whether or not he had a right to express his sexist, racist views on CBS' dime is debatable but he did and does in general have a right to express views that make him look like a pig. Along the same vein Wayans has the right to appear to be a 1950s throwback. Two big questions however spring to mind in light of his comments.
First, why does Wayans can think he can say something like that in front of a crowd of mostly women, to a TV audience of mostly women and not feel even the slightest pause over potential repercussions? Come on - Don Imus is/was a shock jock. He was technically expected to say things like that and he lost his job for the better part of a year. Wayans on the other hand is an actor. True he's a comedic actor but I think almost anyone watching was probably left with the opinion that he was serious about his fundamentals-on-being-a-wife remarks.
Second, and probably most important to me is the question - why didn't these women, including arguably the most famous female news interviewer of all time, turn to this man and soberly ask, "Are you serious? Your remarks could easily be construed as saying that it's a woman's 'place' to cook and do other basic things for a man while the man goes out and supports the little woman. Aren't you concerned that these sort of remarks help perpetuate sexism?" They laughingly protested but to me there was no real sense of pressing him about his remarks, not even when (which isn't shown by this video) he went on to say "It's about performing basic needs."
I'm not naive. I know sexism and racism are alive and well in the year 2007, but isn't it time that more people stood up and called people out for promoting these sorts of thing? I think this is especially true for celebrities who vocalize such views because their voice, right or wrong, doesn't carry the same weight as mine or yours. One celebrity voice reaches so many. I don't think we should castrate him, boycott his movies, or any number of other things. I simply think those four women and any other sensible person who heard his remarks should have said, "Hey we don't agree. There aren't any 'fundamentals' for how women must live so stop being a Fred Flintstone wannabe. Wilma left that cave a long time ago and she ain't planning on going back."
Labels: Sexism
posted by Lady Julia @ 1:36 PM
19 Comments
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19 Comments:
Lady Julia there is so much truth in what you write and I would feel comfortable in supporting your veiw piont in front of others.
Unfortunately, in Australia, not all people share these ideals. Moreover, many Women, "want it all" and instantly too! Like flicking through a Maria Claire magazine and picking out one's favourate cosemtic product. And if it doesn't work, to perfection, just through it away. Gender relations are in a "state of flux" and womens expectations are very high.
All I can promise is to constantly work on my active listening skills and try to be pleasing! But I do not believe this is good enough for modern women.
I wonder if many women there feel the same about men, Nigel? How many couples do you know that have split because they are getting older and he needs someone younger, thinner, prettier? There seem to be some on either side of the gender coin who do not have reasonable expectations.
Hopefully more women value listening skills and the desire to please much more highly than you might think. Those are not the only things I need from him but they are two that are high on my list.
First off, Wayans is a comedian, and is pretty much expected to espouse outrageous views. The fact that he's black allows him some leeway with the "nappy head" bit, but comedians and actors are usually allowed more leeway on anything they happen to say.
Imagine, if you will, Ann Coulter or Bruce Willis, or Tom Selleck saying "Hey, I'm making the money, the least she can do is cook." I think that the ViewChicks would have a field day, as would the media later on.
But maybe we could ask ourselves if this is not a legitimate position after all? Most of the 20-something girls that I know, college educated or not, talk about working part time (if at all) and living in a suburban house with the kids. And none of the 20-something men that I know seem to feel that they have any option but to work until they retire.
I have this conversation with Mrs. Edge all the time; she keeps talking about quitting her job, perhaps working in a volunteer position or at a low-stress job. When I mention that perhaps I'm the one who should stay home, and even home-school the Edgelette, she just laughs.
You've come a long way, baby - around in a circle.
I don't think a man should ever refer to women as whores even if he is paid to be funny. That's just me. Mark it up to no sense of humor in that area I guess - I'll plead guilty to that. To me it's not any different than a racial slur.
As for the other, I have always held the idea that marriage is a partnership and whomever had the most skills at a particular thing should be the person who did that thing. There is no one gender who has a fundamental or basic role.
He said (and I had no sense that he was joking even in the slightest), "women of today - most women - don't want to do the fundamentals" and then went on to use cooking as an example of the basic fundamentals that women of today don't want to do. First off, that's not true. Many women enjoy the "fundamentals" just as many women enjoy careers. Second, how is what he said any more ok than a woman saying, "men today - most men - don't make enough money support their family without the wife working. Making enough money to support the family is the basics - the fundamentals for men"? Both to me are ludicrous.
I don't know many 20-something women who go to college all the while planning on staying at home to let a man support them, but then again, I don't know that many people whose needs, tastes and budget all match well enough to allow one to stay home. Perhaps my socio-economic circle isn't high enough.
Certainly everyone has a reasonable right to have certain expectations of how they wants things to be in their relationship. Perhaps Wayans wasn't referring to women and relationship roles as a general rule, but I didn't get that impression and by their initial reaction I don't think the ViewChicks as you called them did either.
I agree with Lady Julia women should not be called whores or sluts because these are violent words, like punching someone.
But I also agree with Tom that society/people still has gender specific expectations.
I agree that society has gender specific expectations, too. I think it's wrong no matter if it's men that hold those expectations or if it's the women who do.
It's ok to want or need something from a person with whom you are in a relationship but to expect that they be that way because of their gender doesn't make sense.
I think the media/entertainment industry's portrayal of people is one of the reasons people continue to have certain gender expectations. They missed a chance yesterday to do a tiny bit towards rectifying that.
Great debate folks. I think respect is due to everyone - Islamic, Jewish, and maybe even blondes. - its just the right thing to do. But we do tell jokes that prey on groups through political incorrectness. In Canada we used to pick on the Newfies (Newfoundlanders) and the tone of the jokes was inferior intellect e.g. "How many Newfies does it take to screw in a light bulb?". Unfortunately sometimes we see such humor as funny and other times it hits a nerve. As has been pointed out, there is difference between good fun and degradation, and in this case degrading women is not acceptable (but please don’t take away my blonde jokes!).
As for who earns the money and the need for both to work these days – well that’s been a cost of getting women out of the kitchen and into the workforce in my opinion. That’s not to slight women, but simple economics. More disposable income meant more buying power meant more demand meant rice inflation to the point that now the home and family that was affordable on one income takes two to support. I for one have had enough of HAVING to work and would welcome the chance to stay home and do other things like cook and clean and go to the spa (just trying to stir things up with that last bit), but no such luck amigo/a. Do I sometimes think the old way of wage earner and housekeeper roles was better? Sometimes. While I like the modern woman and her independence and the fact that she is at least now legally a person with a vote (versus a chattel as was once the case), I grieve the loss of some of the life values that we used to have when I was growing up. We were less materialistic, more family unit oriented and quite happy with the few things we had. It was great that mom was there for us, that we could go home from school at noon and have a hot lunch. There was an order to things too. Mom’s had lots of power and things were much more matriarchal than maybe we care to remember.
I guess my point is that things have progressed, what was no longer is, and we need both men AND women to come to grips with the new order. Why can’t we stop the power struggle nonsense and find ways to keep or families whole and happy, respect each other, accept the strengths and weaknesses of the married couple team and get past the “who’s on top” debates? Okay, so I have some personal sensitivity here, but this is my dream for the world I’d like to leave to my kids.
TVH
Women are finding they don't want what they thought 30+ years ago that they did want. They were allowed to go to work and the families have suffered. Agree with TVH there. Now they want to stay home and let men take care of them again. Full circle.
Things were much better back in the 50s. There was a stronger family unit and people were happier.
Great site. Came across it today.
On college graduation those 20 something women who don't want to work make 80 percent of what their male colleagues do. At ten years they make 69 percent of what men do. If women are less inclined to work outside the home I think we have established at least one reason why.
Many working women are married to men who live in that 60s mentality in which the woman does most of the cooking, housekeeping, and child rearing. I think we've established reason two why some women are less inclined to work outside the home.
Until there is a reasonable balance regarding pay and family responsibilities there is going to be discontent on behalf of the female professional. Add sexual harassment to the mix and who would want to work outside the home?
Gender discrimination is a very real thing and Julia is correct that people should stand up any time someone makes remarks like this. When many people see celebrities making statements like this they tend to agree at least on a subconscious level and this naturally affects their their behavior.
So many people are sheep and they are only to happy to follow the lead of people they see as a "role model". Sadly these role models are people who earn that role strictly because they can manipulate a ball or effectively pretend to be someone they are not.
A successful and famous black male should definitely watch what he says because sexism and misogyny is very prevalent in that culture. There are fewer public role models and many of the ones who are perpetuate the "women are ho's" stereotype. Listening to the lyrics on rap music for a short period of time is an eye opener.
I agree people are often too sensitive to something that is merely a joke. However we abhor black racial jokes because we know that blacks are discriminated against. We abhor jokes about Jews because of guilt over the holocaust. Why don't we abhor jokes that denigrate women and fat people as these are absolutely two groups of people who are discriminated against. As an overweight man I know that prejudice against fat people is one of the last socially acceptable prejudices. This makes me more aware of how women must feel.
Why do we find humor like this amusing? I think it says something about us as a society.
I’m not sure the whole African American community is laughing with Mr. Wayans as he suggests.
Considering the fact that over 40% of African American households are single parent and predominately female, there are a lot of women doing much more than “the fundamentals” everyday just to survive.
Being a “work at home, stay at home mom”, I can see both sides to that issue. I can tell you from working with teenage girls, one of the reasons some only think about husband hunting is poor self image. They can’t imagine any possibilities for themselves.
Mr. Wayayns isn’t helping matters.
Wow. Was I just part of an actual discussion in blogland?
Cool.
Hey Tom, if you’re up, I’d like an Arabian Mocha Sanani and a biscotti.
I have a few other things on my mind:)
I'm basing my comments on your summary, so I may not get everything quite right. But according to your summary...
Wayans basically said, "I make a lot of money, and I want a stay-at-home wife to take care of those things I don't like to do, don't know how to do, or perhaps don't have time to do."
I don't know if there's anything wrong with that statement. Now, it doesn't sound like he said it very well, and maybe he hasn't thought it out very well. Maybe he wasn't expecting that question, so he hadn't much time to prepare a more well-spoken answer.
What he said he wanted doesn't necessarily agree with what every woman out there wants to be a part of. And clearly, what he's doing in his life means he's not meeting the women who would want to be these things for him.
But I have no doubt there are a lot of women out there who would love to cook and clean for this guy and wouldn't be remotely offended by his expectations.
I just doubt many of them hang out on a FemDom website. :-)
Wayans basically said, "I make a lot of money, and I want a stay-at-home wife to take care of those things I don't like to do, don't know how to do, or perhaps don't have time to do."
If he had said that, I wouldn't have had a problem with that. What reasonable person would have? :) What you want and need is what you want and need.
I'll concede he may have chosen his words poorly, especially as his comments followed his "joke" about the Rutgers women. As I've already said I don't think so but who knows. Unless this becomes the focus of more media attention it's unlikely we'll ever know.
For the record, my opinions on the issue of sexism have nothing to do with being a dominant woman. For me personally my feelings about this stem more from being a professional woman. When you are in a profession where most of the work is done by women and most of the management is done by men, it lends an interesting point of view. Prior to what I am doing now I was the lone woman in upper level management. I was paid less than my similarly educated less experienced male counterparts and my opinions were at times pooh-poohed as being too "female-logic" oriented.
As an example there were times when attempts I made to work with a problem employee were seen as "mama-management" where similar steps taken by a male manager were seen as "steps taken to save an otherwise valuable employee". "You fellas know how women in the South are, don't you? They all want to be mama-managers. (Heh, heh, heh)".
During another situation I remember having a very heated discussion with my boss when he informed me that we needed to protect a particular physician at the expense of a nurse because a doctor's license was more important to him that a nurse's was to her. Huh?
I'm well-aware the world's problems aren't caused by one off-hand remark by one comedian. It's when it's a general manner of behaving and believing that it becomes an issue. If someone is a role model for a number of people, they have an even greater responsibility to stand up and let people know that discrimination of any kind is not ok because these people do have an impact on shaping the opinions and perceptions of so many young minds.
It's not just men that need to be responsible role models. On today's The View, the ViewChicks were discussing infidelity. Whoopi remarked, "The least hot goys are the ones out there working it (trying to cheat). The really hot guys are happy where they are for the most part." Again to be less than eloquent, huh?? That would have started me off on this sexism rant just as easily as Wayans comments did yesterday.
When we tolerate discrimination it continues. If we're not aware of it we're going to tolerate it. I'm just trying to be aware and to encourage others to do the same.
*plops down in bean bag chair next to Suzy*
We shouldn't tolerate discrimination, but human nature being what it is, we make allowances that seem to defy logic.
*passes a double latte over to Suzy*
Half of my family is Italian-American. They get up in arms when Italian-Americans are poked at on tv, movies, etc., but when certain comedians (Pat Cooper, Dean Martin, etc.) make the same jokes, then it's funny to them. From a logical standpoint, I used to think that they would be less funny because they're not "loyal" to the group. It took years for me to realize that they can poke fun because we only like people close to us to point out our flaws.
*passes box of biscotti to Suzy*
Wayans can crack about the "Nappy headed hos" because, being black, he's accepted as someone close to the group pointing out the flaws. And that's fine - until you realize that the underlying issue - that of calling women "hos" - is not a black issue, but a gender issue.
*takes a sip of a tall mocha*
I think that it's perfectly okay to want a lifestyle straight out of the 50s. It's not okay to force it on everyone else, nor is it okay to act as if the rest of the world is wrong because they aren't agreeing with you.
But that also goes for the flip side - it's okay to want to get away from the 50s, but it's not okay to push your modern notions onto everyone else. Taking a look around, it seems to me that most people seem to (at least) accept the quasi-50s lifestyle. Women still have a societally sanctioned choice; they can work if they want, but nobody will look askance if they decide to stay home. The reverse is not true for men.
But that also goes for the flip side - it's okay to want to get away from the 50s, but it's not okay to push your modern notions onto everyone else.
You said it. None of these people here are open to any way but a woman's way.
Women try to rule the world because women have what men want yet men still rule the world. Do the math.
Why shouldn't a man stay home and the woman take care of him? You don't want to work. You want your old lady to work and support you. That's apparent from what you say. Why should she think about quitting work and volunteering when she can be out earning money for you?
I think Wayans should have been taken to task for his comments. I think rap singers should be taken to task for the offensive words in their "songs."
Allowing such comments to go unchallenged increases the likelihood that they will continue.
It is not necessary to be offensive to be funny. I always found Bob Hope to be very funny. He didn't need to be offensive to do it.
Will (RRK)
He has a point. If one person in the home doesn't have a job, it is that person's job to make dinner.
I think shared responsibilities should be a given in any relationship. Any one responsibility being a "basic" for today's women or for today's man.. that concept just doesn't work for me.
I have a brother who works away from home while his wife works in the home raising their children and doing all the things a person who stays home and rears children usually does. I have another brother who is in a relationship where he stays home rearing the children, cooking, cleaning, chauffeuring and such while his wife works. I respect them all because they do what works for them and for their families.
My parents were quite traditional and we grew up seeing each of them having their own distinct roles. My dad worked all the time at a very tough job and my mom worked all the time at home. Whenever something needed to be done, they just did it. I can remember my mom putting on my dad's coveralls when he was at work and crawling underneath our house to fix the pipes. Dad was working 16 hours a day then so she just did what had to be done. If he hadn't been working all the time, he would have done it because he was better at it.
I'm glad that's the legacy we were given. Do what needs to be done no matter if you're a man or a woman. If two of you can do it, then the one with the most skills for the job steps in.
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