Strong Men, Bad Boys, Submissives and Respect

In response to my post on sharing fantasies, TVH commented:
"To what extent does a woman respect a submissive man? Most women want a strong man and are even more turned on it seems by a bad-boy type than by the nurturing type they'd prefer as a husband. Dommes appear to gain great pleasure from making a man submit and worship them, but do they respect that submissive in a way that they could have meaningful relationship? Is there a balance? In this context a man expressing the fantasy of being dominated runs a risk. Can anyone, perhaps Lady Julia, give some perspectives?"
I've heard many discussions about this very topic, TVH. There's so much involved in the dynamic of what makes us attracted to someone. What was our father figure like (if indeed we had a father figure)? What was our mother like? What were our early relationships like? How much credence do we consciously and subconsciously give to the media construct of a "real man"?
My own father is a strong man. Too strong at times, but that's another story :) He was always the rock doing what needed to be done because that's what a man did for his family. It was a rare occasion that I saw any of the softer emotions. When I was younger, I looked for the strong stoic type, but I discovered the difficult way that a relationship with this sort of man simply would not work for me.
I realized for me there must be a balance and I think the same is true for many women. My submissive is a strong man professionally, physically, and emotionally. He's someone I know I can count on if I need his strength. There are times, however, when he needs my strength and he isn't hesitant to let me know. He has his anxieties and insecurities just like everyone else but my respect for him doesn't diminish because of this. In fact, I respect him more because he isn't afraid to let me see the real him. If we were together on a full time basis, I don't know if we would both continue to work but if we were to decide it was best for us that he remain home and tend to the domestic responsibilities, I would have no issue with that and it would not alter my respect for him one tiny bit either.
As for the power exchange things we do, I'm always aware that he's choosing to do the things he does. I can't literally make him do anything. At any time he can stand, turn, and walk away. To me, it takes great strength to surrender control knowing that you always have the option of ending anything that is happening with a mere word. Sure it's easy if you want to do the things being asked, but he's done some things I know he would definitely have preferred not to do. He did them because *I* wanted him to.
As for the power exchange things we do, I'm always aware that he's choosing to do the things he does. I can't literally make him do anything. At any time he can stand, turn, and walk away. To me, it takes great strength to surrender control knowing that you always have the option of ending anything that is happening with a mere word. Sure it's easy if you want to do the things being asked, but he's done some things I know he would definitely have preferred not to do. He did them because *I* wanted him to.
Do I respect him? Absolutely. I respect him not only because he has the strength to submit but because he respects himself. He has expectations for our relationship and for the manner in which I will treat him. He may submit, but he is not a doormat. He may allow his limits to be stretched, but he will not allow me to break him down. He isn't "grateful" because I have "deigned" to dominate him, he realizes I chose to do so because of the sort of man he is. He's not a bad boy. Bad boys do nothing for me. I treat him well and I expect to be treated that way in return. I like it when he is nurturing and caring. He cooks, he cleans, he discusses his ideas freely and he'll even discuss his feelings with a bit of probing ;)
I'm not sure TVH that I really answered your question or even shed any light on it at all, but I'm certainly open to others sharing their views and experiences.



8 Comments:
Thank you Lady Julia.
Yes, you answered my question very clearly. Beyond that you have restored my faith that there are women in the world who can respect and enjoy the type of person I am without thinking any less of me. I've always believed that those of us who can be in touch with these deeper and perhaps more complicated selves are more enlightened, more adventurous, and getting more out of life than those who cannot make the connection. I was beginning to doubt that belief. Your response to my questions has been tremendously helpful.
Thank you, Lady Julia, especically for taking the time to respond to my comment!
I hope others will offer their viewpoints.
TVH aka Shawnia aka (well, someday ...)
Exactly!! Being a Domme does not have to involve 'crushing' your submissive.
In our (my wife and I) relationship we have a very strong D/s component, it is however not the 'only' component.
I submit to her because we both enjoy my doing so. I love seeing the smile it puts on her face to control me.
I know (because we've discussed it) that it's even more pleasing for her because she knows I've handed her this part of me. That in no other area of my life, with no other people do I relinquish control... solely to her.
It's wonderful to read such love, and happiness in your words.
Dear TVH,
From an Australian perspective, in my opinion, many women desire "bad boys" or the aggressively wealthy male because they want the social esteem and status of what this personality type can provide. Women just talk about the sensitive man and the boy next door but in actuallity admit that nice guy's finish last.
In "Western Society" one is required to have material status where homes become temples of percieved success and the only way to achieve that is through the mongrel behaviour of the market. People sacrifice personal development in order to gain what merchandisers advertise as achievement to sell their product and gain market share. Check out Margret Dowd's book "Are men necessary?" where she bemoans the fact that liberal feminism did not deliver what it promised including her failed quest to find the man of her dreams. The critical piont is that Dowd has made a fortune and notoriety through this failure!
Respect! Blaahh!
Respect is a paper chase that others use to bolster their own self esteem while demeaning others. One might argue that chasing a woman's respect is futile because the ideal's and values of people, society, taboo and success constantly change.
It is in oneself that balance, enlightment and purpose are found, perhaps summarised as "respect" and best exemplified in the post WW1 literary quests of Tolkien, Lewis and Hilton in their books Lord of the Rings, Lion, Witch, Wardrobe and Lost Horizons respectively.
Why desire respect from anyone, least of all a Mistress, who can give and take it like a Yo yo just for their own amusement.
Respect for oneself is the summit of all ideal.
I agree with Nigel that people must first respect themselves. Submissives who themselves feel weak, ineffectual, or less of a man must first deal with those feelings.
I completely disagree that a dominant's respect is given/withdrawn at a whim and that it means nothing. Respect for one's partner in any relationship is paramount as it guides our behavior.
For some reason many people believe that BDSM interactions mean that the Dominant does not respect the submissive but this is far from the truth. Doing or saying things to enhance sexual gratification is totally different from being abusive and disrespectful.
PERFECT description Lady Julia - in no way do I want a "wimp" of a man - that I could and would not respect. However, having found a man who wants to be dominated in some ways but in other ways is a very "masculine" man I can really understand what you are describing. It takes a strong man to allow himself to be taken by a woman that he has come to trust. Your words are EXCELLENT
Lady Julia, you addressed the question so well. To add my two cents, I only want submissive males now. Personally, I have found my relationship niche when it comes to the opposite sex. As to respect for a sub male, I not only respect them but adore them. I find now that I can develop a faster and deeper connection to a sub male, knowing that I am dealing with a sub male, moreso than with an man whose sexual leanings I do not know.
In addition, I find that the submissive male demonstrates more strength and character than other males that I know. For me, ther is nothing more delightful than a submissive male at my disposal.
Respect is a very tenuous word. The question is to what degree will a woman respect a man's submissive attitude.
I suspect many women who purport to understand and enjoy a male submissive, do so within narrow confines.
While they welcome a submissive who serves them and pampers them, who treats them like a Queen, there is another dimension which many women find repellant - or at least off-putting. What woman wouldn't enjoy being spoilt but how many are prepared to endulge in some of the more common submissive fantasies, namely to be controlled, humiliated, physically and/or verbally disciplined?
The list of submissive fantasies is immense. How many women either respect or feel comfortable with the deeper, more complicated aspects of female domination or male submissive desires?
I suspect many women who suggest they have a connection with submissive men have very narrow boundaries of tolerance. They want their men to be sensitive yet strong, feminine yet masculine, servants and providers.
The quandary is, however, that many submissive men wish to submit - totally. And how many women will accept total submission from a male?
Perhaps I'm a little jaundiced at the moment due to my own domestic difficulties. At any rate, that's my two bob's worth.
Subservire why does it have to be so severe? A woman can respect what and who a man is without wanting the same things that he does and vice versa.
"The quandary is, however, that many submissive men wish to submit - totally. And how many women will accept total submission from a male?"
If a man wishes to submit - totally, then isn't he required to live by what SHE wants? If she only wants a servant and no kink, he said he wanted to submit totally so he what gripe does he have?
We need to be careful what we ask for with our wives and girlfriends. We just may get it.
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